I am going to leave the USA

[Rochelle]

Fiat money is not sound. Unless your referring to gold and silver

Fiat money is not sound. Unless your referring to gold and silver

D'oh. I should have said sounder money. As in their government isn't constantly running up huge debts, letting it inflate, blah blah blah.

I would also suggest that you study Ricardo's law of rent to understand how a country where no one owns their own land (they lease it from the state) can be rated highest in economic freedom...

I think I read about that in the Undercover Economist (very, very good book!), but I'm too tired to pick that thing up again...does it have to do with the marginal value of the land?

[FrankChodorov]

does it have to do with the marginal value of the land?

click on the link I provided for a quick animated explanation...marginal value of production

[Ron Helwig]

I would also suggest that you study Ricardo's law of rent to understand how a country where no one owns their own land (they lease it from the state) can be rated highest in economic freedom...

I think I read about that in the Undercover Economist (very, very good book!), but I'm too tired to pick that thing up again...does it have to do with the marginal value of the land?

It has to do with redefining the meaning of the word "rent" so that it becomes impossible to properly discuss the issue 

[CNHT]

Rochelle, while I don't mean to insinuate your youth is a detriment I just feel that perhaps you have not seen and heard some of the things that would make moving to these countries a definite downer. Sure, economically it might be more profitable to have a business over there, but I sure as heck would not want to LIVE in a country that legislates what I can put in my mouth, that is not even a mind altering substance, and is as harmless as chewing gum!

I would also be afraid to eat my 'steak tartare' or drinkg the water.

The privacy rights are due to the fact that someplace like Singapore is not as involved in world affairs as the US...so are not as much a target of terrorism.

The property rights issue here is being fought especially in NH, and we even have a film crew coming to document one this weekend. (JJ Valera) We HAVE all the rules and laws that are supposed to keep the gov't out and/or allow us in to see their dealings for example, but we sometimes can't sit back and let them violate those laws as they individuals might try.

It takes education, for example, in the case where folks did not know that Citizens Petitions may not be amended at Town Meetings. Moderators will violate this law if allowed. Also if people won't go and vote, they will get their taxes raised and the gov't WILL ride roughshod over them, so withdrawing from participation is not recommended either. Doing nothing is equal to helping the other side as far as I'm concerned.

Last night one small town was victorious but JUST TWO VOTES!!!

[Rochelle]

click on the link I provided for a quick animated explanation...marginal value of production

Yup that was the one

It has to do with redefining the meaning of the word "rent" so that it becomes impossible to properly discuss the issue

Well, that's what economists do best...the hidden side (and meaning of everything)

Rochelle, while I don't mean to insinuate your youth is a detriment I just feel that perhaps you have not seen and heard some of the things that would make moving to these countries a definite downer

Okay good, because from my experiences (coughschoolcough), references to age tend to insinuate that.
And I have heard of that sort of thing--but I was strictly limiting my comments to economic freedom, mainly because it's possible to measure it while personal freedom--such as being able to chew gum, eat unpasteurized cheese (a personal freedom all of Europe has, but we don't!), and the like.
For example, I hate recycling and sorting my trash because the cost of doing it is more than the benefits you get from doing it, and when I'm in Germany (I go back there Friday...), everytime I have to throw something away I have to sit down and think "Okay, does this used tissue go under paper or trash trash?" not to mention washing the trash before throwing it away and all that (Germans can be a bit anal;)).
For me, this is a significant tresspass to my personal freedom--my ability to just throw my trash away and be done with it! But I also know that in New Hampshire, there are many towns that require recycling, so I'll have to put up with that in order to enjoy the greater economic freedom of being able to keep $200 more dollars of my salary every month, not having to pay sales tax, and not having to pay the extra $500 million  the Kansas Legislature/court decided we needed to give to public schools.
It, like everything else in life, is a trade off and I just hope we can get rid of mandatory recycling after I move there!

The property rights issue here is being fought especially in NH, and we even have a film crew coming to document one this weekend. (JJ Valera) We HAVE all the rules and laws that are supposed to keep the gov't out and/or allow us in to see their dealings for example, but we sometimes can't sit back and let them violate those laws as they individuals might try.

Yea, and this is another reason for moving to New Hampshire. For its population, Kansas is one of the worst eminent domain states and New Hampshire is one of the best. Actually, you might be interested in looking at the North American Report of Economic Freedom; it ranks Canadian and American provinces/states based on Freedom. New Hampshire ranks 7th, and is therefore one of the freer places you can live in in the world, based on the US world rankings. So we're not doing to badly.

Also if people won't go and vote, they will get their taxes raised and the gov't WILL ride roughshod over them, so withdrawing from participation is not recommended either

Exactly, which is why I vote. But my main concern is that the majority of Americans fail to look at proposed government programs, such as medicare drugs, war, No Child Left Behind, Mars, and see the eventual consequences of them, the long-term costs and all that. For example, in my area, there used to be a lot of clinics that served the "underserved" segments of the population that are now being driven out of business because they can't compete with the free medicare drugs and all that. So now that segment is even more underserved.

If Americans as a whole--and I'm not referring to FSPers, we know--don't wake up and start calling their government on these things, it's not just going to be Mrs. Concious that is leaving the US. We'd all be better off moving to countries that are making progress in the direction we want it to go. Staying is a good choice, but not to the point of martyrdom.

Interestingly enough, I first started thinking about this issue when my fiancé, who is moving with the FSP from Finland, asked me if I would be willing to do the same thing--leave my country in order to work for freedom in another. It's a big step, and at first my reaction was HELL NO! But then I thought about it and realized that there were a few things that would definitely make me move:
1) If homeschooling were made illegal. I'd be out of here faster than you can say NEA
2) If moving funds abroad were made illegal
3) If we end up with nationalized healthcare
Most likely it would be a combination of these things--most other countries have nationalized health care as well, but number one is the big one. I don't mind working for freedom in my lifetime in New Hampshire, but I'll be damned if my kids will go through what I went through in school.

In conclusion, I don't think it's time to move yet, but I do hope that things work out for Mrs. Concious and she finds a good place to live in freedom. Think Estonia! Eastern European Tiger!

Edit: link for North American Economic Freedom Report: http://www.freetheworld.org/efna2005/EFNA2005.pdf

[FrankChodorov]

I hate recycling and sorting my trash because the cost of doing it is more than the benefits you get from doing it

that is because the true cost of throwing away your garbage is not included in the price  - these are called negative externalities that the neo-classical eceonomics paradigm can not by definition incorporate.

[KBCraig]

For example, I hate recycling and sorting my trash because the cost of doing it is more than the benefits you get from doing it, and when I'm in Germany (I go back there Friday...), everytime I have to throw something away I have to sit down and think "Okay, does this used tissue go under paper or trash trash?" not to mention washing the trash before throwing it away and all that (Germans can be a bit anal;)).

I was always amused that my German friends and landlords took great pains to post a sign in their own private garages: "Rauchen Polizeilich verboten!" ("Smoking forbidden by law!").

We didn't sort the trash when I lived there, but we did break everything down so that it would fit in the can.

Kevin

[Dreepa]

For me, this is a significant tresspass to my personal freedom--my ability to just throw my trash away and be done with it! But I also know that in New Hampshire, there are many towns that require recycling, so I'll have to put up with that in order to enjoy the greater economic freedom of being able to keep $200 more dollars of my salary every month, not having to pay sales tax, and not having to pay the extra $500 million 

My town doesn't require recycling... but it does make economic sense (as well not filling up a landfill).
The tipping fees where our town take the garbage to get burned/buried is going to double in 2009 (when the contract runs up).  The goal is to increase recycling (which the town sells) and decrease garbage. So that in 2009 when the rates increase there will be no reason to increase taxes.

[DC]

Frank Chadorov, are you still in charge of the Democratic Freedom Caucus of New Hampshire? You have one post in your forum 51 weeks and 6 days ago and that was Varrin. None by you.  

[president]

That is about on par with the NHLA.

[FrankChodorov]

Frank Chadorov, are you still in charge of the Democratic Freedom Caucus of New Hampshire? You have one post in your forum 51 weeks and 6 days ago and that was Varrin. None by you. 

yes.

someone else set the website up thinking they were going to get named chair but when I did nothing every became of it.

[CNHT]

I only sort my trash according to how I can lug it myself....but not for recycling. When I get there, it all goes in the same bin.

I only put the coffee grounds and stuff that can't go in the disposal in my little bags, because those get tossed often, but the large bottles, jars, cans, go in a large open bin lined with the green bag, because I can take 4 times as much because it's light and not smelly...so I can keep it longer thus a bigger amount is collected up before I take it. This way I only have to go to the dump once a month.

You can eat unpasteurized cheese here if you wish...and yes, Germans ARE anal....LOL I know that first hand!   

[CNHT]

OK we know who Mrs. C is.....she is indeed just who I thought she was...   

So you snerts who keep smiting me can restore my Karma if you would.... tsk.

[Recumbent ReCycler]

Interestingly enough, I first started thinking about this issue when my fianc?, who is moving with the FSP from Finland, asked me if I would be willing to do the same thing--leave my country in order to work for freedom in another.

I was born in Finland.  If it wasn't for their socialized medicine (national healthcare), Finland would be a pretty good place to live.  If it weren't for the taxes that people have to pay to fund state run healthcare, I think I would probably prefer to live in Finland.  One thing that I don't like is that you have to get a license to own a firearm, but suppressors, (often referred to as silencers), are encouraged for the protection of hearing.  There are relatively very few laws concerning firearms and very little crime there, as well as much fewer police officers than in the US.  The last time I was in Finland (for three months), I only saw one police car and never did see a police officer.  I like Aland because it is somewhat independent, although I'm sure there is a lot that I don't know about it.  One thing that I have been trying to accomplish in NH is to get RSA 207:4 repealed.  
"207:4 Silencing Devices. ?
   I. No person shall possess a rifle, pistol, or other firearm fitted or contrived with any silencer or device for deadening the sound of explosion, for the purpose of taking wildlife. Nothing in this section shall prohibit the use of a muzzle brake, polychoke, or compensator.
   II. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a person who has obtained a depredation permit issued by the executive director of fish and game from taking wildlife under such permit using a lawfully obtained silencing device."
Unfortunately many statists seem to think that allowing law abiding hunters to use suppressors while hunting will encourage poaching because the fish and game officers "won't be able to hear the shot".  I hope they don't realize that you can use a bow or crossbow to hunt deer, because they might decide to try to ban those because the fish and game officers won't be able to hear them being fired and someone might use a bow for poaching.    When I tried to persuade some legislators to submit a bill to repeal RSA 207:4, some argued that poachers might decide to start using them for poaching if they were allowed for hunting, while others argued that you can just get a depredation permit.  Unfortunately, unlike a concealed carry license, F&G is not required to issue a depredation permit.  When I tried to get one, they told me that in order to get one I would have to own a farm and prove that wildlife was causing harm to my livestock or crops, then they would consider possibly issuing a depredation permit, but that would be up to the discretion of F&G.  

[Tunga]

THE PARIS PEACE TREATY OF 1783.  Article 1:?His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof. ?


Due to this fact the United States Government must forever and always treat New Hampshire as a country unto itself.

Indeed if one listens to the full text of the FCC's "this is a test of the emergency broadcast system" one can  hear reference to this concept.

So in essence moving from Kansas to NH truly is an international experience. For you anyway. For your finish Boy friend however, the XC skiing really blew chunks this year. Cept'n at Christmas time.