Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[cathleeninnh]

I don't blame you at all for questioning the value of that option. It's precisely why I don't question the differing choices we make. One option may weigh more to me than to someone else. A lot of times, the attention you can garner is the most we can hope for. That is worth a lot to me.

Cathleen

[error]

If I had $450 laying around, I'd drop it in a second, just to see how this plays out.

Unfortunately, I spent that money coming out there, and coming out there again for the next inevitable protest!

[d_goddard]

there is a $450 fee just to file.  Now I don't know about you but I can think of about twenty different ways to spend such money that would be more helpful to our cause than expending it on their system.

Yeah... that's a lot of money to put into this fight. Opportunity cost would be pretty high.
If you're soliciting for feedback from armchair quarterbacks, this one suggests paying the fine and moving on, analyzing in detail how & why they were able to prosecute you in this instance, so as to be able to either:
a) avoid prosecution in the future, or
b) choose specifically what unconstitutional rule you intend to break, and have consulted with a lawyer about how to defend yourself BEFORE breaking it, or
c) best option determine specifically the rule you believe to be unjust and unconstitutional, and consult with a lawyer about how to bring charges against the State to get that rule removed

I for one would be more than happy to contribute to defray legal costs if option (c) is pursued.
If you read a few of the "famous" court cases where constitutional arguments have been used to successfully strike down oppressive laws, 9 times out of 10, that is exactly how it was done.

[Spencer]

Generally, an appeal requires that you have preserved the error that you are claiming.  Without a lawyer, a person usually doesn't know how to say all the right things and object at all the right times (and then reraise the issues, as appropriate) so as to preserve any error.  My suggestion to request a new trial was a way to create and preserve error.

Just try not to get cited again, but if you do, don't rush into the trial again (take the time that they give you); there are plenty of ways to prepare a case and proceed pro se in a way that allows you to preserve any issues for appeal (as well as possibly win).

Dada, just to sate my curiousity, could you tell me what CFR the Man cited you with violating?  It should be something like 41 CFR ___.  Then I'll know whether my earlier advice (which is based on an assumption re: the CFR involved) is correct as applied to your situation.

[Tom Sawyer]

I appreciate Dada spending 125 bucks for the entertainment... folks spend that much for an evening out. He got a lot more than one evening's mileage out of this.

LTE published and people mobilized... it ain't about winning a court case, that would have just been icing on the cake.

[FTL_Ian]

The problem however is that, according to her at least, there is a $450 fee just to file.

What a fucking scam.  So only wealthy people can challenge their convictions?  Surely there is a exemption to this.  They probably just tell people that to get them to give up or pay up.  There may be a workaround.  If not, then this is just more evidence that the system is stacked against the little guy.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you decide to do, Dada.

[John]

I see john goes for 2 flags now.

Seemed to work quite well . . . just have to have a long enough pole.

[Russell Kanning]

I appreciate Dada spending 125 bucks for the entertainment...

I bet he doesn't pay. The bad guys want your money.

[FrankChodorov]

I appreciate Dada spending 125 bucks for the entertainment...

I bet he doesn't pay. The bad guys want your money.

I wonder how much his time is going to be worth sitting in jail?

mine is definitely worth more than $125/hr.

[Tom Sawyer]

I appreciate Dada spending 125 bucks for the entertainment...

I bet he doesn't pay. The bad guys want your money.

I wonder how much his time is going to be worth sitting in jail?

mine is definitely worth more than $125/hr.

Bill I hope you make your customers wear a condom.

[Dave Ridley]

Well as far as the appeal goes I don't intend to go that route but I do kind of like the idea of doing this from scratch at some point with the plan of getting cited again and then taking it through the system on our terms.  I have still made no represenations regarding whether I will pay the fine or not pay it.   I still need to write another article for the KFP

[Dave Ridley]

Just sent this to the KFP for publication probably in the next edition:

------

Local man charged with petitioning government for redress of grievances
By Dave Ridley

If the calls and other inquiries I've been getting are any indication, it would seem there is some interest in the outcome of my David-and-Goliath wrestling match with Homeland Security, during which I have been charged with an interesting "crime."   

As you may recall from previous KFP and Union Leader articles, in September I entered the IRS office in Nashua and performed a "silent demonstration."

I held a sign and handed flyers to IRS workers which question the morality of working for an institution which funds waste and torture.  Respectful in tone, these leaflets list constructive steps IRS employees could take which would reduce the amount of harm they are causing.   They are, in the purest sense, petitions for a redress of grievances.

I left the office (slowly) after being ordered to.  But when an article about this demonstration appeared in the Keene Free Press, Homeland Security officers came looking for me and issued me a sort of Federal traffic ticket.  It charged me, essentially, with...petitioning the government for a redress of grievances!  Specifically the charge was "Distribution of Handbills."

As you may be aware, such a charge seems to nakedly violate two Constitutional Amendments...Amendment One, which says Congress shall make no law "abridging...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances," and Amendment Ten which reads:

     "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited
     by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So the Founding Document, which Federal officials swear an oath to uphold, specifically forbids them from "abridging" the right of petition.   But even if the First Amendment were not there to safeguard petitioners, the Tenth Amendment strictly limits Washington's  powers.  It can't lawfully issue "Federal traffic tickets" to keep petitioners out of its offices, or do much of anything else, unless there is some passage in the Constitution which at least vaguely authorizes it to.

Of course, the Feds haven't been following the Constitution for many decades, so there is rarely much hope of winning a court case simply by appealing to that simple document.   You "win" by lavishing your life savings on attorneys who search for complex legal precedents and loopholes for you to slip through.   

I think it's better just to make the government violate the Constitution in full view and keep your attorneys fees to yourself, even if it costs you the case.  So when I declined to accept the citation, and the authorities summoned me to court in November, I happily dropped by with eighteen friends, two rattlesnake flags, one copy of the Bill of Rights and zero lawyers.

After holding a demonstration outside the Concord courthouse for about an hour, we went in and found ourselves intercepted by a polite gentleman from the U.S. Attorney's office, Mr. Fief, whose name I may be misspelling.  He asked me, without really saying it in so many words, if I would consider making some kind of deal to keep this from going before the judge - James Muirhead.  He said he had brought witnesses.  I asked him if he felt comfortable about prosecuting a case like this.  He said it didn't matter what he felt.  I asked him if what he was doing was right.  He repeated that it didn't matter what he thought.  He asked if I wanted to proceed with what would likely be a bench trial.  I said I had no representations to make other than my intent to enter the courtroom.

There were a lot of extra people standing around including Federal Marshals and a police dog.  Later I was told that they were all there because of us.  Gandhi said to be effective, civil disobedience must evoke a response from the government.  So there was our response...though I don't welcome their decision to waste taxpayer dollars this way.

Once inside things went fast.   I have no idea how to play lawyer, but I just quoted Amendment One above and requested that the judge throw out this "constitutionally challenged" case.   I suggested we minimize wasteful taxpayer expense and put a quick end to the proceeding, a proceeding I did not request.  I did get him to admit that the Constitution takes precedence over laws and regulations.  But he and the prosecutor both said that the government can institute "reasonable regulations" to maintain security in Fed buildings.  Of course, there is nothing I know of in the Constitution that authorizes this practice.  So I then brought up Amendment Ten above and indicated that "reasonable regulations," like everything else cannot be imposed by the U.S. government unless there is something in the Constitution that authorizes them.  I asked them twice where in the Constitution they were authorized.  I would have settled for a pretty vague passage...but of course never got much of a response, just references to "fire in a crowded theatre," security and regulation.   It was like to them the Constitution was an endearing legend but not quite real.  They say it takes precedence, but apparently regulation - not even law - takes precedence instead.

From there on it was all facts and witnesses, and of course as expected I was in completely over my head.   They brought in the IRS officer who had thrown me out, a Ms. Post.  She also was polite and did not seem vindictive...to some extent I think she was starting to get a little amused with the whole thing too.  She was mostly accurate but made what I will assume was an honest factual error in her testimony.  She had misinterpreted my pokey backwards departure as a refusal to leave the office, and I wanted to make clear that this silent demonstrator always leaves (slowly) when told to.    To get this and a couple of other points across I had to take the stand myself, which is usually bad for a case but what the heck, nobody lives forever.  It's important that Feds understand us, so they can join us, right?  Maybe that is more important than winning.  So up I went to the stand and of course that gave the prosecutor the chance to ask me other questions about the handbills.  I declined to answer at first but the judge said I had to.  I later was told this was not true and that I could always plead the Fifth even on the stand.   Anyway I answered honestly.

After this the judge asked for closing statements, and I just said that I appreciated everyone's politeness but that a conviction would be indicative that the Constitution is no longer in effect.  Judge Muirhead said something like "not on my watch is it ever going to stop being in effect."   Then, of course, he pronounced me guilty.  He said I could pay the $125 fine at the Clerk's office.

I was more amused than angry and we had some banter after this; he suggested I should appeal and said he was always in favor of citizens exploring constitutional rights using the courts.  I expressed reservations about running my own little crusade at taxpayer expense; he said the guys at Appeals Court aren't doing anything anyway.  I said then you should shut those courts down.  He laughed, and away we went.

Outside I spotted the man who had issued me the citation, Officer Schmitt.  I went over and shook hands with him in a friendly manner.  I said "you didn't come all the way over here just because of me did you?"  He failed to answer.  He did not look real thrilled to be talking with me.   One of the Marshals who I know, Gary DiMartino, came by and greeted me.   And then we were back on the street.

Looking back, we have some gains and some losses to report here.  First, we have lost some degree of our spare time over this and had a bit of travel expense.  I had some degree of uncertainty thrown into my regimen.   We have not generated a great deal of mainstream media attention...just an article in the Union Leader.  And of course we lost the case!

On the other hand, this sort of fight is what we are all about.  It is great to be able to address some of New Hampshire's most prominent (if polite) tormenters and do it, I hope, in a way that reminds them we are not vindictive against them on a personal level, that we are peaceably and respectfully trying to gain our freedom.  We've had a chance to display for them the whole Gandhi approach yet again, and each time this happens they get to know us better.  Assuming we have done our jobs and they have consciences, it gets a little harder for them to inflict yet another anti-liberty evil in New Hampshire each time this happens.   By now they should have a very clear understanding that when they hurt us, they are hurting decent people who are peaceably risking their freedoms to protect the country from its government.

In terms of press coverage, we now have so much media of our own that it's easy to get the word out even when the event is not tailor made for the mainstream press.   Hundreds of thousands of folks have probably heard about this one silent demonstration now thanks to Free Talk Live, KFP, WNTK radio and the Homeland Stupidity blog. 

We have an issue here upon which the entire libertarian community is united (those that know of it), and we have learned a little more about Federal court and how Federal officials handle themselves.  It's not a bad exchange.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to show up or spread the word about this case.  If everyone did what these stand-up New Hampshirites are doing, everyone would have their freedom already.

[AmerTownCrier]

Dave, it's just not fair you're having all the fun! Your article is well written by the way. Everyone in NH getting active and here I sit in Michigan frothing at the bit to get there. Maybe it's time to lower the sales price on my property...again!
Keep up the good work...the numbers of people moving to NH will grow and it's helpful to know the foundation is being laid by so many good people.
What actually happens if you just don't pay? A bench warrant issued? Which means you'll probably get picked up during a random traffic stop. Or maybe they will just add penalties...in which case you can leave again...and wait until the next random traffic stop.
In any case...as poor as I am...I'd be willing to send you $10 and hope enough other people will pitch in too. There was a thread at one point talking about an 'insurance' program...but it won't work as well as We The People financially supporting those who get 'hit'. Can you imagine if enough of us send in money...and you receive $200...pay the fine...and have money left over for the next citation! If people will sign up to help finance those who are actively persuing freedom...we can actually make it profitable to engage in CD.
Anyhow, I just meant to say thanks...keep up the good work.

[Russell Kanning]

I just fixed a couple of typos.
This is good info for us to put in the Keene Free Press.

[Barterer]

Great story.  If you decide to pay the fine, I'll chip in.  But I demand advance credit on that Freedom Insurance premium!     Let me know.