The American Liberty Dollar

[Kat Kanning]

Does anyone here have a retail business that accepts Liberty Dollars?  Bernard von Nothaus sent me a really nice mat for a commercial counter that says "We accept liberty dollars.  Ask for your change in silver."  The mat's yours if you will use it publically.

[YeahItsMeJP]

Does anyone here have a retail business that accepts Liberty Dollars?? Bernard von Nothaus sent me a really nice mat for a commercial counter that says "We accept liberty dollars.? Ask for your change in silver."? The mat's yours if you will use it publically.

Perhaps we can convince the lady that runs that citgo in peterborough on rt 101...?

JP

[Kat Kanning]

I thought that too!  I'll ask next time I go through.  Oh, I might be able to do that today.

[Michael Fisher]

You want a practical, honest alternative to Lying Dollars?  Fine, here you go:

Silver Bullion
http://apmex.com/shop/shop_silver.asp?orderid=0

Gold Bullion
http://apmex.com/shop/shop_gold.asp?orderid=0

Buy the bullion, then go to www.Kitco.com once each day and write down the current value of it.  Gold is currently at $424.20 per ounce.  Silver is at 7.05 per ounce.  Add a few percent to cover the premium on the coins.  Preferably, use circulated silver rounds and gold krugerrands, which have a very low premium.

Here's where you can buy them in person with cash:

Seacoast Coin & Jewelry
725 Lafayette Road, Hampton, NH 03842
http://www.seacoastcoin.com/

There's probably another coin shop near Keene.

This is how real money has been used for thousands of years.

[Kat Kanning]

I don't see why the liberty dollar people shouldn't make money off their business.  No one's forcing you to use them.

[Michael Fisher]

I don't see why the liberty dollar people shouldn't make money off their business.? No one's forcing you to use them.

They're not telling the truth about the value of the LDs.? If someone goes to cash an LD, they'll only get 70% of what they thought it was worth because it says a dollar amount on the coin.

It's that simple.? The LD is 30% fraud, no matter how you look at it.

-----

Constructive Fraud:  conduct that is considered fraud despite the absence of an intent to deceive because it has the same consequences as an actual fraud.

Fraud in the Factum:  fraud in which the deception causes the other party to misunderstand the nature of the transaction in which he or she is engaging especially with regard to the contents of an instrument (as a contract or promissory note).  Also called "fraud in the execution".

[FTL_Ian]

They're not telling the truth about the value of the LDs.  If someone goes to cash an LD, they'll only get 70% of what they thought it was worth because it says a dollar amount on the coin.

It's that simple.  The LD is 30% fraud, no matter how you look at it.

I totally understand how you feel, LeRuineur6.  I once felt that way as well, it took me a long time to come to understand the Liberty Dollar.  I found that if someone goes to convert an LD to FRN, they are exchanged one-for-one by their local Regional Currency Office.  Yes, that means the RCO is "losing" FRN when he performs the exchange, but that's part of his responsibility as an RCO.

We don't want anyone to feel "stuck" with Liberty Dollars.  The purpose of course is to not exchange them, but to spend them.  To circulate them.  It's not intended as an investment, but a competing currency.

You are correct that using weighted unmarked silver rounds would be better, but if you think it's difficult to get people to accept Liberty Dollars (and it is), good luck with a currency without a "value" stamped on it.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with profiting from the distribution of the Liberty Dollar.  People need an incentive to get it out there.  Plus, the banks profit BIG TIME off of f distributing the worthless FRNs.  It's clear to me where the fraud is.  It's called the Federal Reserve Note.

Ragging on the LD is akin to trying to poke holes in FedEx for competing with the post office!  No one is stopping you from creating another competing currency!  In fact, Bernard VonNothaus (Liberty Dollar founder) encourages more competition in currency.

[Scott Roth]

Hey Kat?  Gotta mat?  Would love it!!!

[Kat Kanning]

Cool, it's yours   Would you and Lori like to meet us at Applebees in Keene, 6:30 tonight?  We're having a mini porcu-gathering.  If not, I'll get it to you some other time.

[Michael Fisher]

I found that if someone goes to convert an LD to FRN, they are exchanged one-for-one by their local Regional Currency Office.? Yes, that means the RCO is "losing" FRN when he performs the exchange, but that's part of his responsibility as an RCO.

I've never heard about this before.? Are you absolutely positive about this?? If someone takes a "$10" LD to an RCO, they give the customer $10 US?? Are you sure?  Nobody has ever said this to me before, even when confronted by my questions on this subject.  This would effectively nullify my entire argument.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with profiting from the distribution of the Liberty Dollar.? People need an incentive to get it out there.? Plus, the banks profit BIG TIME off of f distributing the worthless FRNs.? It's clear to me where the fraud is.? It's called the Federal Reserve Note.

If they cannot get $10 out of a "$10" coin or piece of paper, then it's the same type of fraud as FRNs, but less extreme.? Let's not set our standards as being better than our government's standards.? ANYTHING is better than the government's practices of blatant monetary fraud.

However, if you can indeed redeem a "$10" LD for $10 US, then I'm fine with them.

[Kat Kanning]

Can't fnd this on their website.

[Scott Roth]

Yes, it's true.  The RCO will exchange a $10FRN for a $10LD.  They really lose nothing inthe long run, due to the discount they have with the LD.  And folks, we are in this for the long run.  Mike, I know it seems like a ripoff, when all the facts aren't in front of you.  But it IS a much better alternative than the FRN.  It keeps government OUT...and puts the people back in.  Of course, there is always room for other forms of exchange as well.  You had mentioned Ralph Borsodi.  There are many other ways to create economic strength, even within this forum.  Be creative...

[YeahItsMeJP]

I found that if someone goes to convert an LD to FRN, they are exchanged one-for-one by their local Regional Currency Office.? Yes, that means the RCO is "losing" FRN when he performs the exchange, but that's part of his responsibility as an RCO.

I've never heard about this before.? Are you absolutely positive about this?? If someone takes a "$10" LD to an RCO, they give the customer $10 US?? Are you sure?? Nobody has ever said this to me before, even when confronted by my questions on this subject.? This would effectively nullify my entire argument.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with profiting from the distribution of the Liberty Dollar.? People need an incentive to get it out there.? Plus, the banks profit BIG TIME off of f distributing the worthless FRNs.? It's clear to me where the fraud is.? It's called the Federal Reserve Note.

If they cannot get $10 out of a "$10" coin or piece of paper, then it's the same type of fraud as FRNs, but less extreme.? Let's not set our standards as being better than our government's standards.? ANYTHING is better than the government's practices of blatant monetary fraud.

However, if you can indeed redeem a "$10" LD for $10 US, then I'm fine with them.

Scott's right, RCO's have to give $10FRN for every $10LD. "$ for $" as they say.

Scott, Lori and I have been looking into this for quite sometime now.

JP

P.S. If you need more info, call Kamal Jain in Lowell, MA. He the the RCO for Northeastern, MA. Closest one to us, I believe.

[Scott Roth]

Hopefully this month, Lori & I will become Liberty Dollar associates, so as to supply any and all who want the Liberty Dollar.  We've gotten inquiries from a number of Free Staters about the LD.  So, it's business as usual...

[Russell Kanning]

RCOs give you a $10frn for your $10LD silver piece?......now that is a ripoff.......getting paper for a perfectly good piece of silver