Something is going on at Error's apartment!

[Pat K]

I think it's finally fixed.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5444126196608526282

Giving them information only feeds them. They are not going to become your buddies because peaceful people give peaceful and truthful answers.   They (the man wearing the Wal-mart vest  represents who?) were telling the young lady she was lying. This is the reason the 5th Amendment exists.

So I guess you have a video of yourself, dealing with the
feds, were you are perfect and you will post it right?

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

I think it's finally fixed.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5444126196608526282

Giving them information only feeds them. They are not going to become your buddies because peaceful people give peaceful and truthful answers.   They (the man wearing the Wal-mart vest  represents who?) were telling the young lady she was lying. This is the reason the 5th Amendment exists.

So I guess you have a video of yourself, dealing with the
feds, were you are perfect and you will post it right?

Sharing observation is the only purpose to the comment. Learning from the event.
It was not to criticize.  She did what most people would do.  A young mother is of course going to be concerned and it is great she was able to film the matter and have it posted. Surely the agent Wal-mart vest and other will be reprimended to have asked her those questions by their superiors.
It is astonishing that this was even allowed to be recorded. Some people live in states where officers  would have grabbed the camera and cleaned the slate....or even been more abusive.
No ego is perfect, but thanks for your comment.

[Pat K]

O-K just checking.

[Russell Kanning]

the wallmart smock .... that's what it was ... I was trying to remember what the guy reminded me of .... he would really be a rotten greeter at wallymart

"Welcome to the US empire
I just came up from DC to detain and question patrons
What did you know and when did you know it?
Do you know about fed judge hit lists?
How many times have you read Unintended Consequences?
Why are you getting nervous? I am not trying to alarm you ... I just have a job to do.
I would like to meet your friend tomorrow.
Never mind ... tomorrow is Saturday ... I can't let my job interfere with my 3day weekend."

[Russell Kanning]

SFW completely understands the sentiment. However, perhaps a simple adjustment within the approach may garner a wider support.  You are not refusing to pay taxes. In fact, you volunteer with check book and pen in hand to pay legal taxes.  All you need is for the government to show you the law. The undisputed law. You are not a tax protester nor a tax evader.  You simply want to abide by the U of s Constitution, and wish for our government to do the same.

In general when you say you are a tax protestor, the public believes you are anti-government, anti-american, etc., etc., etc.  It should be clear that you support the Constitution. 

But I don't support the constitution, so most of those ideas do not represent my thinking.
I refuse to pay taxes. I do not wait for them with checkbook in hand. I am a tax protester. I am anti-government.

[FTL_Ian]

Come home? I haven't gone anywhere! I've been screwing with your video all day. Now I know why Dave doesn't like to edit. What a royal pain.

Have you ever done linear analog editing?

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

SFW completely understands the sentiment. However, perhaps a simple adjustment within the approach may garner a wider support.  You are not refusing to pay taxes. In fact, you volunteer with check book and pen in hand to pay legal taxes.  All you need is for the government to show you the law. The undisputed law. You are not a tax protester nor a tax evader.  You simply want to abide by the U of s Constitution, and wish for our government to do the same.

In general when you say you are a tax protestor, the public believes you are anti-government, anti-american, etc., etc., etc.  It should be clear that you support the Constitution. 

But I don't support the constitution, so most of those ideas do not represent my thinking.
I refuse to pay taxes. I do not wait for them with checkbook in hand. I am a tax protester. I am anti-government.

O-K. Just checking. 

[KBCraig]

Come home? I haven't gone anywhere! I've been screwing with your video all day. Now I know why Dave doesn't like to edit. What a royal pain.

Have you ever done linear analog editing?

Ha! No kidding! I do not miss those 3/4" and 1" linear systems! Even the highest tech linear systems were little better than splicing film.

[Braddogg]

Come home? I haven't gone anywhere! I've been screwing with your video all day. Now I know why Dave doesn't like to edit. What a royal pain.

Have you ever done linear analog editing?

Oh god, I used to do that in high school.  I enjoyed the process, but it got very long and very tedious.  Spending 10 hours in a row in an overheated editing bay is a little tough.  I stopped being involved in that around the time that the studio got a nonlinear digital editing system (probably 5 years ago); I hear that's a lot easier.

[ancapagency]

I know I probably said more than what I should or needed to have said.  HOWEVER, I thought it important to have the video posted, at the very least, to use it as a training tool for all of us to know what not to say or how to respond better in the future... and I also know I did the best I could at the time under the threat I felt to myself and Rob without any type of training or prior experience in these matters.  I'm sure everyone knows and understands that.

Don't second guess yourself, or allow anyone else to shake you regarding what you did.  You did damn well, all things considered.  Could it have been handled better?  Yes--provided you had prior training and preparation, provided you didn't need to worry about Peter, provided you weren't worried about what might happen to Rob and others, and provided you had some notice it was coming before you did.

Will you do better next time (if anything similar happens in the future)? Probably.  But you came out ok, Peter came out ok, Rob and everyone else came out ok.  You can't ask for much more than that.  And to add icing to the cake, you got some training and experience (even if it was damn scary and uncomfortable), we all got a bit of a wake-up call, you got video evidence of some of the tactics used by the fedgovgoons, and we all get to sit around here doing after action reviews about what happened without having to worry about anyone who was hurt or arrested (in this particular case). 

Incidentally, in a fight, you've got to realize that the prize is keeping what you have--not winning something you don't have.  If you win, you live.  If you lose, you die.    It ain't pretty, it ain't fun, but it's true.  If you make it out reasonably intact, be thankful, and chalk it up as one more victory, and a learning experience.  And don't let any armchair generals cheat you out of your victory.

And of course, the feds didn't make themselves any friends this time.  They've succeeded in irritating and scaring folks, but they damn sure didn't make any of us like them any more than we did before.  And they've caused many of us to become more aware of their tactics, and how to counter them.  We win, folks.  It ain't a big and glamorous victory, and it damn sure didn't win us the war.  But it did win us a small skirmish.  It strengthened us, strengthened our resolve, and strengthened our preparation.  I almost feel sorry for the poor bastards.  Almost.

[dan_sayers]

Really makes me wish Ed and Elaine hadn't done what they did. Not because they were wrong to not pay income taxes or that I think they should be in jail, but because absolutely nothing good has come out of the whole fiasco.  The thought that they're considering the FSP as a whole "violent" is particularly disturbing, both for what they could do and how it could scare people off.

Well, that kind of puts the blame on the Browns. If you feel they are responsible, then okay. If not though, we can't bow to this act of aggression. Not even in the mind. Somebody stood up to the bully. Bullies thrive on the threat of force and the reputation of the same. If they feel either were undermined, they respond in the only way they know how: the threat of force. Not exactly what you'd expect to see from people claiming their presence is to ensure non-violence.

I wouldn't advise provoking these guys by doing an open carry while they are surrounding a house.  It may be your legal right, but you could also end up seriously dead because these feds are incredibly paranoid.  I also wouldn't get in their faces while open carrying.

Again, we need to keep the finger pointed where it belongs. Including in our mind, and in our words. Open carrying is a passive activity. It is ineligible for descriptors such as "provoking" or "in their faces." If they have an issue with citizen carry, they can relocate to one of the many countries that share their views of victim disarmament or they can remain in this country and take up an occupation that doesn't require them to take an oath to the Constitution. If somebody exercises their right despite the threat of force and is wrongfully injured or killed in the process, the dog will get put down that much faster. It's not a sexy image, but it IS living free or dying.

Of course I make sure to drive to a safe place to park (trust me, they will follow you) so the car is not towed

Of all the opportunities I've had to figure this out for myself, it never occured to me. Thank you for sharing your superior tactic.

I'm sorry you lot are being chased after and badgered this way. Any entity not seeking for a reason to proceed can see full well that nothing concerning any of the parties involved is violent. Did any of these feds feel the slightest bit inclined to remind the judge that he had due process to adhere to and a Constitution he was sworn to uphold so that they wouldn't have to waste their time chasing ghosts? Probably not. Which is exactly the problem when we don't point the finger at the responsible.

[Braddogg]

I've never liked the "die" part of "live free or die."   

[error]

"Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils."

Slavery, for instance, would be one such thing.

[shyfrog]

"Live free or don't" just doesn't cut it

[Braddogg]

"Live free or don't" just doesn't cut it

Why not?