3rd Annual Jaffrey Live Free or Die Celebration & Forum

[Russell Kanning]

Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in.  People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. 

Ian, that letter was so funny.  Thanks for posting it.  However, since most of the people I know in TN are racist and or statist, I cannot really hate Pokerface.  There music is ok.  I enjoy some racist music, like tons of the Public Enemy songs.  So what if some of the songs are anti-white.  It's just music, let's not take things too serious.

I love Kat's take on the subject.

because of your name change ... I had to stop ignoring you HR Keith and Stuff ... funny post
maybe after you live in NH you can have Dale give you the "stuph" title

[dalebert]

Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in.  People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. 

Good grief, Kat. No one is going to stop them from attending, though I don't think they will. There's a big difference between screening every attendee for their views and INVITING hateful racists to perform on the stage! By inviting them, you are implying support when we should be distancing ourselves from these incredibly hateful people. We should be exercising our freedom of association and not associating with them. They're statists as well, Russell. They want to start a racist party to impose their hateful views on others. We shouldn't suppress speech, but we aren't obliged to provide platforms for speech either. I sometimes like to provide a platform for people I disagree with simply because I think it helps my cause, particularly if I think they will just bury themselves with idiotic statements or if more intelligent debate follows that shows the flaws in their beliefs. However, if I do that I make it VERY CLEAR that they don't speak for me and I'm not endorsing what they say.

[FTL_Ian]

Ian, that letter was so funny.  Thanks for posting it.  However, since most of the people I know in TN are racist and or statist, I cannot really hate Pokerface.  There music is ok.  I enjoy some racist music, like tons of the Public Enemy songs.  So what if some of the songs are anti-white.  It's just music, let's not take things too serious.

There's a difference between hating and ostracizing.

I ostracize in the hope that the person will change and stop THEIR hate.

[Russell Kanning]

I believe you Dale ... I just wasn't really worked up about this stuff. When these other guys plan events, I bet there will be many people who slip into the agenda. I just don't plan on attending.

[John Edward Mercier]

True, but Ron Paul is just a pandering politician.  Based on his 1988 campaign statements, he probably really doesn't feel that way.

The Pokerface guy is a White nationalist/separatist, from what I gather.  Here's what dalebert found him saying on their forum:

We will largely eliminate both crime and racial conflict by making America a largely white country again. In particular, we propose to offer blacks a substantial payment -- say, $100,000 -- to renounce their citizenship and go elsewhere, and to require sterilization in exchange for welfare if they remain. (Note: Blacks are only 13 percent of the population, but commit 50 percent of the crime.) As for illegal immigrants -- particularly Hispanics -- we propose to round them up like Ike did in the 50's when he got rid of thousands, or else to pressure employers not to hire them by making it risky and costly to do so.

This Pokerface guy is sick.  Good for Coteau for kicking their sociopathic asses out of his event.

How come only blacks get a substancial payment for renouncing their citizenship?
What about the rest of us?

[KBCraig]

Makes you wonder if the racists down the hill at PF'05 (where Pokerface played) were more than just a coincidence.

[J’raxis 270145]

Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in.  People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. 

Good grief, Kat. No one is going to stop them from attending, though I don't think they will. There's a big difference between screening every attendee for their views and INVITING hateful racists to perform on the stage! By inviting them, you are implying support when we should be distancing ourselves from these incredibly hateful people. We should be exercising our freedom of association and not associating with them. They're statists as well, Russell. They want to start a racist party to impose their hateful views on others. We shouldn't suppress speech, but we aren't obliged to provide platforms for speech either. I sometimes like to provide a platform for people I disagree with simply because I think it helps my cause, particularly if I think they will just bury themselves with idiotic statements or if more intelligent debate follows that shows the flaws in their beliefs. However, if I do that I make it VERY CLEAR that they don't speak for me and I'm not endorsing what they say.

I completely agree with ostracizing PokerFace over the views that its lead singer advocates, but I found this to be a little disturbing:—

Hi Paul.  I did an email search and found your email.  Sorry for missing it / not replying.

I thought Varrin was going to email you about this after the rally but he has been tied up with other things and asked me to.  PokerFace has been discussed by the FSP before and agreement reached, but no one (it seems) ended up writing you and I don't think that's right or fair. I'd have brought this up at the rally but it was a fun, positive day and I did not want to get into what would have likely been a negative,
confrontational conversation.

In short, aside from the fact that we were only featuring local bands, the FSP cannot turn a blind eye to what you write, forward, and tolerate/accept in your forum.  For example:

http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5492
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=30
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=8
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5486
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=4660

These put PokerFace in conflict with those who are welcomed by the FSP.  If you disagree with this assessment, please let us know; otherwise, barring a significant change in the views you advocate, tolerate, and the individuals you accept around you, please do not request/expect to play at any of our future events or associate with the project.

Thanks and again, I apologize that no one wrote you about this sooner.
   -Rich

Ostracizing people for exercising their rights in a manner you disagree with (e.g., using one's freedom of expression to express racism) is fine, and in fact the only right way to deal with such behavior. However, ostracizing people for allowing or tolerating others to exercise their rights in such a manner goes far beyond that, and indeed does sound like "political correctness" to me.

Is this an official position of the FSP board? That not only do they not want members who advocate racism, violence, or hatred, but that they also expect their members to actively place such requirements on their own friends and associates, to police public forums that they may run in order to do the same, and so on?

[Russell Kanning]

boy Ian better watch out ... who knows what all happens on his forum.

[FTL_Ian]

There's a difference between things happening on a forum and *inviting* racists to be a part of an event you organize.

[Russell Kanning]

Keith and I are telling jokes.

I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation.

[dalebert]

I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation.

Very nice guy... very talky. This can not be overstated. I have my cell phone set to self-destruct as a safety measure if his number comes up on the caller ID. As a backup measure, I have 8 lbs of C4 and an auto-destruct sequence for my home and car to ensure my death that triggers if the cell phone self destruct fails.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation.

Very nice guy... very talky. This can not be overstated. I have my cell phone set to self-destruct as a safety measure if his number comes up on the caller ID. As a backup measure, I have 8 lbs of C4 and an auto-destruct sequence for my home and car to ensure my death that triggers if the cell phone self destruct fails.

I had a good time at LFOD last year, particularly the after party. Like most rock bands I can't understand the lyrics, so, they could have been dissing my mom, and I wouldn't know.

[Pat K]

I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation.

Very nice guy... very talky. This can not be overstated. I have my cell phone set to self-destruct as a safety measure if his number comes up on the caller ID. As a backup measure, I have 8 lbs of C4 and an auto-destruct sequence for my home and car to ensure my death that triggers if the cell phone self destruct fails.

Now that is funny.

[jaqeboy]

I've volunteered to help Jean with the event and I hope everyone else does, too. It looks like a lot of fun will be had and it'll be a tremendous outreach opportunity. We ought to all be flyering for the Live Free or Die event to make sure it's HUGE. I may start camping there on Wednesday or Thursday to help with last minute prep.

On a side note, the last time I saw "Mike" was in probably 1978, when he was a snotty 17-year old high-schooler. I worked with his Mom, Aline and hung out with his brother Marc, who did a lot of the construction at their riding arena and horsemanship training center, Honey Lane Farm on Goldmine Road in Dublin. I basically ignored him and he ignored me back then, so we have a lot of catching up to do. I'm glad he's turned out so well and I wrote his mom telling her so!

[Pokerbass]

Greetings all,

Dennis here from the band Poker Face.  Let me state that I am not here to stir up a hornet's nest, but, rather to clear up some misconceptions.  I might recommend that we start a new thread if anyone's interested in having a civil discussion.  However, I felt that this needed to be addressed here first.

Ian and others have claimed that we have been "outed as racists."  The readers have even been given an example from our forum to substantiate this.  Unfortunately, the claim is flat out false. 

I will agree that we have been "accused" of being racists/supremacists/communists/fascists/manyotherthingists.  However, it emphatically, absolutely, and positively must be stated for the record that we judge no man by anything but his own actions and support no "isms" in any totality.

In response to the snippet quoted from our forum, THOSE ARE NOT OUR WORDS!!!  The author is stated at the beginning of the post.  It is presented so that you can read and come to your own conclusions according to what THE AUTHOR writes.  This guilt by association crap does not fly.  If it did, Ian would be just as racist for posting that quote here.

With that said, I have two things to ask of my accusers:

One - an apology to the moderators/administrators.  I don't care one bit if you apologize to me or the band.  This is some lightweight mudslinging.  But, those who have thrown that mud have violated the very first part of the very first sentence of this forum's terms of agreement which states: "You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive..." 

Two - apologize to and assist Mike & Jean to make this event a success.  Poker Face has already agreed to bow out (I hope you're happy with your baseless and unwarranted deeds).  But, the actions of a few, here and elsewhere, have put an inordinate amount of stress and financial burden on a man who had nothing but good intentions.  I recommend that the squawkers eat a big hacking piece of humble pie.  When you get that down, realize that your efforts have caused this dillemma.  Then put twice as much effort into helping instead of hurting the cause.

If there is any wish to elicit our opinions, please feel free to ask where we stand.  We'll gladly tell you.  That might be sage advice whenever you feel the need to gossip like a tabloid writer or deceive like a New York Times reporter.

Thank you for the opportunity to address the crowd,
Dennis
Poker Face