Incident that happened on 8/25/08 need advice/help *updates 7/07/09*

[shyfrog]

Post a request on here (as an event, not in this thread), and you'll probably be able to get it moved for the cost of a couple cases of beer and some pizza.

If you combine moving 2/3 a ton of steel and a couple of cases of alcohol, the results may be "sub-optimal".  The question becomes who would mop up the blood and dig the teeth out of the floor with a chisel?  

Yeah ummm...the moving takes place BEFORE the alcohol consumption

[leetninja]

9/16/08 3:49pm EST Salem Police called for the kids skateboarding, report of criminal trespassing, possible destruction or damage to private property, they were antagonizing/teasing/disturbing my dog so i guess that could be added on as well ... I asked for an officer to respond not once but TWICE.

9/16/08 4:45pm EST Salem Police still have not responded to an emergency call
9/16/08 5:45pm EST Salem Police still have not responded to an emergency call
9/16/08 6:45pm EST Salem Police still have not responded to an emergency call

[leetninja]

9/16 7:15pm EST girlfriend was driving home down Henry Taylor Street and the kids on skateboards - to reiterate one was the kid involved with the 8/25/08 incident - watched her pass and proceeded to pick up a rock and throw it at her vehicle.

Police are supposedly coming here now.

[lastlady]

I can't help but wonder when you will stop calling the police? They honestly tend to make things worse.

9/16 7:15pm EST girlfriend was driving home down Henry Taylor Street and the kids on skateboards - to reiterate one was the kid involved with the 8/25/08 incident - watched her pass and proceeded to pick up a rock and throw it at her vehicle.

Police are supposedly coming here now.

[Russell Kanning]

I can't help but wonder when you will stop calling the police? They honestly tend to make things worse.

I agree.

[leetninja]

well they dont want "us" to do anything about it or "police" our own neighborghood and towns etc but it is their "job" to arrest and charge criminals. 

when these kids attack me and i defend myself i will have recorded phone calls and written logs of all of this and most importantly legitimate arguments against whatever charge they file on me.  they dont do anything about the little asshole kids but if i did anything to them i could only imagine what they WOULD do ...

on top of that and while i do agree that they just make it worse ... honestly ... what other choice do i have?  let the kids break my windows of my vehicle?  have my house burned to the ground?

if i could arrest and charge them i would but i am told that i cant.  so what are my options?

[DigitalWarrior]

If you think calling the police makes things worse in his case, what would you propose he do?  Would you propose that he exercise some "sovereign right" and imprison the kids in his shed?  

I would probably be OK chasing kids away from my house in my best crazy old-man voice "Get the hell off my lawn ya little bastards!" without the cop call, but throwing a rock at a car results in a cop call ~100% of the time...  

[Josh]

if i could arrest and charge them i would but i am told that i cant.  so what are my options?

I'm pretty sure you CAN arrest them IF they commit or are in the process of committing a felony in your presence. In some states, you can also arrest them if you have good reason to believe they WILL commit a felony, ie; the lighter and gas can incident.

Obviously, I'd recommend checking NH law in regards to citizen's/any person arrest

[MaineShark]

RSA 627:5

...

IV. A private person acting on his own is justified in using non-deadly force upon another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to arrest or prevent the escape from custody of such other whom he reasonably believes to have committed a felony and who in fact has committed that felony: but he is justified in using deadly force for such purpose only when he reasonably believes it necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the imminent use of deadly force.

...

    VI. A reasonable belief that another has committed an offense means such belief in facts or circumstances which, if true, would in law constitute an offense by such person. If the facts and circumstances reasonably believed would not constitute an offense, an erroneous though reasonable belief that the law is otherwise does not make justifiable the use of force to make an arrest or prevent an escape.
    VII. Use of force that is not justifiable under this section in effecting an arrest does not render illegal an arrest that is otherwise legal and the use of such unjustifiable force does not render inadmissible anything seized incident to a legal arrest.

[Josh]

So according to the NH statutes, you have to wait for him to set the house on fire, or break your windows, or commit whatever other crime you might be hoping to prevent. That sucks. 

[MaineShark]

So according to the NH statutes, you have to wait for him to set the house on fire, or break your windows, or commit whatever other crime you might be hoping to prevent. That sucks. 

You can only arrest for felonies, so breaking windows doesn't even enter into it.

However...

627:7 Use of Force in Defense of Premises. – A person in possession or control of premises or a person who is licensed or privileged to be thereon is justified in using non-deadly force upon another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent or terminate the commission of a criminal trespass by such other in or upon such premises, but he may use deadly force under such circumstances only in defense of a person as prescribed in RSA 627:4 or when he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent an attempt by the trespasser to commit arson.

Which means that you can legally use deadly force in the arson situation - you just can't arrest the guy afterwards, if he doesn't actually commit the arson, because you stopped him.

Stupid, eh?

Joe

[DigitalWarrior]

Internet Lawyers are worth exactly what they are paid.

I believe Leet's Professional Lawyer said that citizen's arrest is a Really Bad (TM) idea.  Why do you think a man who gets paid to offer his opinion said that?

[MaineShark]

I believe Leet's Professional Lawyer said that citizen's arrest is a Really Bad (TM) idea.  Why do you think a man who gets paid to offer his opinion said that?

It is a bad idea, for the reasons given.  There are very few things you can arrest for, and most of those are things where you can use force in self-defense, so arrest is not a major issue.

In any case, lawyers are officers of the court.  Their first loyalty is always to the system, so they are hardly an unbiased source of information.

Joe

[DigitalWarrior]

So do you want tell me about the gold fringe on the flag and capitalizing your NAME and how by uttering magic words related to maritime courts or common law copyright you will get them to not throw you in the clink and take all your stuff.

A lawyer's first loyalty is to their client.  They serve that loyalty by keeping "the system" from grinding their client into dust.  I have never regretted a dollar I gave a lawyer. 

Does anyone have advice about what leet should do other than call the police?

[MaineShark]

So do you want tell me about the gold fringe on the flag and capitalizing your NAME and how by uttering magic words related to maritime courts or common law copyright you will get them to not throw you in the clink and take all your stuff.

Um, even if such things weren't nonsense, they would still be part of the system.

A lawyer's first loyalty is to their client.

That is absolutely false.  Lawyers are officers of the court.  Serving their clients is incidental to that.

Joe