Don't associate with Ryan Marvin.

[J’raxis 270145]

The FSP forum needs a board that's locked down just to any registered user. The "participants only" thing is too restrictive because so many freestaters never asked the forum admins to be made a "participant."

[Fluff and Stuff]

That would be Project not the Party.
The FSParty has no secrets!

The FSP doesn't have any, either 

[KBCraig]

The FSP forum needs a board that's locked down just to any registered user. The "participants only" thing is too restrictive because so many freestaters never asked the forum admins to be made a "participant."

I never have, and didn't see any value in finding an admin to ask. I haven't participated on the FSP forum for quite some time, so it wasn't worth bothering anyone just to read this one thread.

[AntonLee]

too bad for them, it'd be nice to know what people to not associate with if I'm coming to NH.  It's too bad not everything is out in the open.

[ny2nh]

too bad for them, it'd be nice to know what people to not associate with if I'm coming to NH.  It's too bad not everything is out in the open.

I agree with you, AntonLee. If Brinck and Andy had known that Ryan owed Ron over $2000 in back rent, they wouldn't have let him move in with them. Not really understanding why the thr4ead was moved to non-public...

[Pat McCotter]

too bad for them, it'd be nice to know what people to not associate with if I'm coming to NH.  It's too bad not everything is out in the open.

I agree with you, AntonLee. If Brinck and Andy had known that Ryan owed Ron over $2000 in back rent, they wouldn't have let him move in with them. Not really understanding why the thr4ead was moved to non-public...

We can't let prospective FSP members see how insiders handle these incidents. It might scare them off.

[ny2nh]

Yea, I guess those thinking of moving here and expecting to rip off their "friends" once here will be less likely to move, huh?

[dalebert]

I agree with you, AntonLee. If Brinck and Andy had known that Ryan owed Ron over $2000 in back rent, they wouldn't have let him move in with them. Not really understanding why the thr4ead was moved to non-public...

True and I agree, but most landlords get applications and references before renting. I realize this is more casual, but they knew Ron had rented to him. Did they ask him how it went? If so, what did Ron say?

I think a little due diligence might have brought this out earlier. There have been a rush of people moving to the Keene area destitute and looking for a place to stay, some of whom have barely even introduced themselves on the forums, much less gotten to know anyone in person where you can get a feel for them. I was recently encouraging people to be conscious about who they're inviting into their homes. What do you know about this person?

And Ron, oh goodness. This may sound like a strange criticism but maybe you are too nice for your own good. It sounds to me like Ron was a little too patient with more than just Ryan when it comes to rent payments and now look where Little Minnesota is. I don't know if it would have made a difference or not but still. Charity is a luxury you can enjoy when your own needs have been met and your cup runneth over. Maybe if he had publicly complained about some of those people earlier, including Ryan, instead of quietly letting them parasite him to death, those folks would have either gotten their shit together and become productive members of our communities or they would have been exposed and avoided. Ron is a great guy and I just hate to see him walked all over like that. Ron, we want you happy and prosperous. You've got to learn to say "no".

Most of us are against socialism for a reason. It's destructive to individuals and communities. There are good ways and bad ways to go about being charitable. You should avoid being an enabler of bad behavior. I think we could all use a lesson about not exercising blanket trust just because someone seems interested in the liberty movement. I think there are a fair number of people who just want to belong to something and what we're doing is very appealing to such people whether they're fans of liberty and responsibility (they go together) or not, or whether they use the rhetoric but don't apply it in the real world.

We need to raise our expectations. We need to stop getting too hung up on that number counter and start thinking quality over quantity. It seems obvious that what we've accomplished so far is due to a small number of very high caliber people who are here; certainly not because of sheer numbers.

[Tom Sawyer]

We need to stop getting too hung up on that number counter and start thinking quality over quantity. It seems obvious that what we've accomplished so far is due to a small number of very high caliber people who are here; certainly not because of sheer numbers.

Amen Dale... Well said.
The wrong person can cause damage.

I know we have pulled back somewhat our involvement because of concern and frustration over folks lack of wisdom in dealing with these unknown/unproven entities.

[Russell Kanning]

to me part of the reason for this movement is to say "no" to those that want to steal from or live of the productive people.
makes sense to me to oppose small time criminals also

[Friday]

Charity is a luxury you can enjoy when your own needs have been met and your cup runneth over.

I would add to that AND WHEN YOUR DEBTS ARE PAID.

To be less gracious and more judgmental than Dale (cuz hey, that's how I roll  ), charity when you haven't covered your own needs and paid your own debts isn't necessarily kind or generous... it can be downright wrong.  If you have $20 in your wallet, and you owe someone $100, but you give the $20 to a friend, that may be an act of kindness to the person who receives the $20, but where does that leave the person/corporation who, in good faith, loaned you the $100?  We can't have a functional free market society if we don't keep our word, honor our contracts, and pay our debts.  Just sayin'.

[Ryan McGuire]

Wouldn't it be ironic if people started submitting recommendations for including Ryan himself on his dontpatronize.info website?

[liftsboxes]

Well said, Dalebert.

I do think that we would all do well to take a step back (not necessarily right away) from the emotion here and think about how this sort of thing should play out in a voluntary society.  From time to time people will do things that hurt others / themselves.  It's better to learn these lessons small, than it is to screw it up big.

[dalebert]

Oh, and as for those "destitute people" moving to Keene, many have worked out just fine. I don't want to give the wrong idea. I'm just trying to get people to exercise caution with strangers at least until we get to know them and know when to pull the plug or kick them out or whatever the situation calls for. Best to make it clear to them up front as well that your charity has limits and they will be expected to pull their weight in a reasonable time frame.

[Ryan McGuire]

If you have $20 in your wallet, and you owe someone $100, but you give the $20 to a friend, that may be an act of kindness to the person who receives the $20, but where does that leave the person/corporation who, in good faith, loaned you the $100?  We can't have a functional free market society if we don't keep our word, honor our contracts, and pay our debts. Just sayin'.

Anytime you loan someone money you should also be specifying (or implicitly agreeing to) a time period with which that person has to pay it back.

If I have a $100,000 mortgage with an agreement to pay it back (amortized) over 10 years, then I would be perfectly justified in giving a friend $20 before I paid back my whole mortgage as long as I still pay back the mortgage in the 10 year period. Just sayin'.