You're not going to get laid. Inspired by Rogers Libertain Flash thread.

[porcupine kate]

Conditioning is more effective than convincing.

Can you expand on this?

[cathleeninnh]

Well, we get used to things really quickly and respond to actions and conditions much more quickly than we do words. It isn't so much a response to your initial argument about the social manners of some of the single guys, as a response to the direction the discussion has taken. The norm for most people is what they were conditioned to over time more than what they were told is acceptable.

A lot of words are thrown around in our various groups and the talk goes in circles. Progress is hard among ourselves and even harder when we are trying to enlighten, encourage, influence others through words.

We have a tough row to hoe when much of our conditioning is generations deep.

You may not be able to civilize the uncouth. As my mother taught me. Don't stoop to bad behavior. Be a good example for others. Rise above and bring others with you. But then, I never took debate classes.

[porcupine kate]

Thank you Cathleen.
I like it. 
I do think it is a very good way to live.  I keep on working on being a better person and a better activist. 
I have to admit I aspire to be more like you in many ways Cathleen.  I have for years now.  I guess I'm an example of what you are talking about.
Kate

[muni]

I get your point, but I have to say I've heard this sort of remark before and it bugs the @#$% out of me.  So condescending and dismissive of the hundreds of Free State Project participants who DO have family, friends, jobs, schools, ties to their local area, and were/are willing to go balls-to-the-wall all-out for liberty by relocating their households to New Hampshire from all over the U.S. (and, in some cases, other countries). 

I agree with you, there are quite a few socially competent movers who gave up a lot to move here. I said it before and I'll say it again, as a non-mover I respect them. A lot. I don't know if I would have done what they did, it's not easy at all.

But this thread is not about them. It's about those who don't know how to behave.

Marshall Fritz used to say "You're probably the first libertarian that your acquaintances will meet. Will you make their experience positive?"

We should ask ourselves a similar question: We are probably the first free staters that our local acquaintances will meet. Will they have a good impression?

muni .

[ny2nh]

Good point, Muni.

[Keyser Soce]

Being rude is worse than being wrong.

I'm late to the game on this thread but in response to the original post, I liked it except for the above quote.

[Keyser Soce]

 
I am volunteering to help with Porc Fest and want to incorporate personal responsibility into the theme of the event.  If 2010 is like 2009 I will have to reconsider my involvement with the event.  Way too much reckless behavior for my taste.  I want it to be a welcoming family event not an altered state weekend long binge.

I'm pretty sure it will always be both. Separating what is effectively two events in one will be easier this year.

[MengerFan]

Separating what is effectively two events in one will be easier this year.

How so? What's the plan?

[Keyser Soce]

Separating what is effectively two events in one will be easier this year.

How so? What's the plan?

I'm pretty sure we have the whole campground this year. Those wanting a quieter environment should have no problem finding it. We'll work to have more specifically family events and separate them from the p - a - r - t, why? Because I gotta!

[porcupine kate]

Being rude is worse than being wrong.

I'm late to the game on this thread but in response to the original post, I liked it except for the above quote.

I can understand why you don't like the quote. I often see people so hell bent on being right that they fail miserably in getting the people around them even entertain the idea being presented because it is being shoved down their throats.  I see this happen quite frequently and the person on the soap box can't read the body language of the people around them to see the they lost.  You can and do lose good budding pro liberty people forever. 

Convincing people about pro liberty is a form of sales. 
In sales you want to make the customer comfortable. You want to assure them that you don't think they are stupid or a fool.  You never want to put them on the defensive.  They will need to feel a connection to you or they will not buy what you are selling.  Selling the idea of less government is not as easy as being a check out clerk at a super market you have to work hard and give really good customer service to close a sale.  Rude makes them walk out the door. before you even get started.

[thinkliberty]

I'm pretty sure we have the whole campground this year. Those wanting a quieter environment should have no problem finding it. We'll work to have more specifically family events and separate them from the p - a - r - t, why? Because I gotta!

The rainbow gatherings have segregated camps theme camps (which makes it kind of fun) where things are promoted and/or prohibited, Maybe people at porc fest might try this at some point, if they think it's large enough to segregate.

Some camps that they have:

A camp: No alcohol

Kiddy camp: where families with kids go to camp.

Nic at night: Cigar/Cigarette  smokers firepit where people stay up all night talking.  no tents nearby, they had tents for sleeping in other camps

They have maps and banners to help people find the different camps.

[porcupine kate]

Separating what is effectively two events in one will be easier this year.

How so? What's the plan?

I'm pretty sure we have the whole campground this year. Those wanting a quieter environment should have no problem finding it. We'll work to have more specifically family events and separate them from the p - a - r - t, why? Because I gotta!

I respect your choice to party at Porc Fest.  Have a great time and enjoy yourself.
What someone does on their campsite is none of my business. I don't care.  Party if that is want you want to do. 

I had no trouble staying away from they events and parties I didn't want to attend.  I even had good friends rent the campsites around me so we would be able to enjoy the week together.  We even threw a party over the weekend.
I did have big a problem with uninvited people, many of them drunk in the middle of the night on my campsite.
It freaked me out and upset me.

Please have people respect the property rights of others and stay off any site they didn't rent unless they are invited on to that site.  I will not stand for the disrespect of my property and down right rude and dangerous behavior I saw in 2009.  I have never seen such disregard for others in my life.  It made me pissed.  I had to seriously consider if I was going to attend Porc Fest 2010.

Liberty isn't an excuse to be a selfish irresponsible danger to others. 
I know you know that.  So how do we teach that to others?

Please keep in mind that I will not move my camp site to the middle of nowhere because people can't follow the campgrounds rules.  Rogers is private property with a rental contact.  How do we make sure everyone gets the concept of following the contract?

I need people to respect my right to liberty too.   If everyone can't learn that the cause is lost.
So what is the best way to get the people to embrace personal responsibility and respecting others property so everyone can enjoy liberty?  How can we make it fun and safe for everyone.

I will be explaining gun safety and etiquette over and over again to anyone attending so we can reduce the safety issues. I am also running the silent auction again at Porc Fest.  Carla knows.  I told her I won't officially join the group till after the new year.  Has the group working on Porc Fest figured out how to minimize the risk to the FSP if something really bad happens or Rogers has the cops poke around more than just a ride through the campground?






 

[porcupine kate]

Thinkliberty. 
That concept may be hard to do with the lay out of  the place and what type of campsites are available in certain areas. 
The Porc Fest crew did a great job of having the night time events away from most of the campsites. This made it easy for those of us with kids on our sites. 

The biggest problems arose when the parties left the events or other parties.  Roger's has the most family friendly sites near the playground.  Most of them have water and electricity.  This makes it a no brainier for most people with children.  It also happens to be along the main drag and has sites behind it.  Lazy and inebriated people felt the need to take short cuts through these sites.  This caused all sorts of problems and inconveniences to those who had rented some of the most expensive sites at Rogers to get the convenience.

[KBCraig]

I haven't been to Roger's since PF'06. The next time I attend PorcFest (aiming for 2011!), I hope to be living in the Lancaster area. That said: I'm lazy, and there's a slight chance I was inebriated at some point during PF. It never occurred to me to cut through anyone's campsite.

I really don't understand why someone who is drunk would take a shortcut through campsites. Roger's has nice, clearly defined roads, and they're laid out so that no-one ever has to cut through another site to get to where they're going.

There are some clueless and clue-resistant people in this world, though. I don't know what to do about them, but punishing everyone else is not the answer.

[Russell Kanning]

yea ... i can't imagine wandering off the paved roads at rogers campground at night ... while drunk
maybe kate will have to  set up drunk traps that hoist the offenders into the trees for the next day .... that might slow down the intruders