Main thread for Ed and Elaine Brown vs the evil IRS, Part 22

[Ray]

GET A BACKBONE, GET A LIFE: Free Ed, Elaine, and the Supportive Four.

By: Raymond Ronald Karczewski©

Just what does it take for you people to understand the real, actual significance of the Government's arrests of these six people, Ed and Elaine Brown, Jason Gerhard, Bob Wolffe, Cerino Gonzales, Danny Riley.

These people are setting a precedent. Their arrests and warrants now state that anybody can get arrested without breaking any laws just because the government says so.

Is that the kind of country you want to live in. I sure as hell don't.

Are you people NUTZ?? You sit around talking endlessly about what to do about Ed and Elaine Brown, and now the others, but doing nothing in the meantime.

You're being led around into circles of misdirection by your noses which are being twisted and jerked hither thither and yon by Loyal Opposition Patriot Media mind controller talk shoe hosts pretending to support your cause, but who are actually, actively engaged in serving their own commercial agenda as a medium for an endless stream of misdirecting talk, thus keeping you idle, inert, and fearful, just the way your slave masters want you. They, the patriot radio hucksters milk thousands of dollars of contributions from those who can least afford it, all the time playing the media "rating game."

The patriot Radio hucksters have the best of both world, don' they?. Like the Mainstream media, they are actively supported by commercial businessess and corporations. But they they have a leg up over their mainstream competitors by being able to milk public contributions, not unlike National Public Radio (NPR), when commercial support lags. All because of the fear they are able to engender into their listening audience. Quite a scam, is it not.

All the while Ed and Elaine are held prisoner in their own home over a LAW THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

You people are cowards. All talk and no Show. You are dreamers who dream of a life that, in your present state of consciousness, YOU SHALL NEVER HAVE.

Do you know what you can do. YOU CAN STAND UP AS INDIVIDUALS and assert your Sovereignty as Living, Breathing, Flesh-and-Blood, Sentient, Natural Men and Women.

Do you want a demonstration on how its done? Read the Patriot and the Pirate, Part III thread in my Section at the bottom of this forum. That's how you back em down, EVEN THOUGH THEY HANDCUFF YOU!!!

To all of you is say: GET A BACKBONE! GET A LIFE!! GET THESE GOVERNMENT LEECHES OFF YOUR BACK ONCE AND FOR ALL!!

Raymond Ronald Karczewski©

_________________
Raymond Ronald Karczewski© http://www.arkenterprises.com

[KBCraig]

You people are cowards. All talk and no Show.

So where have you been, Ray, while people on this forum have been getting arrested in support of the Browns? Busy affixing your copyright notice to internet posts?

[Braddogg]

I'm curious, how many people supporting the Browns have joined them in their refusal to pay taxes?

[E-ville]

Do you expect people to say they dont pay taxes on a board that is know for FED goons to be looking at.. some with really big kahonas may, but others wont..

I pay mine you goons, but I'm fighting to stop you despicable people.. I truly hope you loose you job in 2008... And I have a 12 foot moble billboard to prove it!



Ron Paul 2008

[Braddogg]

Well, you could always send me a private message.  Or an e-mail.  Or an IM.  I'm just curious.  My opinion is that taxation is evil, and armed resistance like the Browns are planning is a perfectly legitimate decision from a moral perspective, but I enjoy living freely, so as long as the government is going to kidnap or kill me, I'm going to pay my taxes.  Tax resistance is a morally legitimate option, but paying your taxes is a legitimate option too.  I don't think going to jail for the Browns is something to be commended, but it's certainly not something to be condemned.  Kevin's reply to Ray got me thinking on that.

RE Dr Paul: If the IRS were dismantled, many of them would just get jobs collecting whatever other method of taxation (tariffs, federal excise taxes, federal property taxes) Dr Paul would inflict on us.  After all, the borders won't defend themselves, and the illegal immigrants won't deport themselves.

[E-ville]

Ron Paul says he would replace the IRS with nothing... and thats a quote, and he says what he does.. history has proven that..

Here is the part about income tax thats evil, Income tax you cant avoid...  a tax on a product I can choose to avoid.. for instance I can drive a electric car so i don't have to pay any road taxes..  I can choose not to buy certain items that are taxed...  I brew my own beer and wine because it's cheaper than buying beers that are equivalent in quality because I don't pay the tax on them..

The income tax isn't something I can choose to avoid with out being threatened of death or jail time.

I agree with the brown and that income tax is slavery.. Ill support them in there fight in ways such as publicizing it where i can and telling others and educating people.. I also think supporting them by giving them food and supplies to support there life and health is something that is morally correct, and I think if the feds block this type of peaceful morally correct support they should be prosecuted with premeditated murder charges. The only reason why this would happen is because the feds blocked these needs for life to exist, and did it intentionally, thus premeditated murder..  Thats something for these feds reading need to think about, you are killing some one over a small amount of money, on a issue that isn't even morally correct and has been legally disproved in other cases. I would not want that on mu conscience.

[coffeeseven]

I'm curious, how many people supporting the Browns have joined them in their refusal to pay taxes?

I pay all Constitutional taxes. 

[SnowDog]

RE Dr Paul: If the IRS were dismantled, many of them would just get jobs collecting whatever other method of taxation (tariffs, federal excise taxes, federal property taxes) Dr Paul would inflict on us.  After all, the borders won't defend themselves, and the illegal immigrants won't deport themselves.

Ron Paul says he would replace the IRS with nothing... and thats a quote, and he says what he does.. history has proven that..

I'll just say this about that:  He wouldn't HAVE to replace it with something else.  The Federal Personal Income Tax gets wholly absorbed by the interest on the national debt ALONE.  The funds that pay for those types of programs come from Corporate Income Tax...

Ray sounds like a government thug that has come in here to intentionally try and stir up the hornets nest, in my opinion...

The income tax provides 40% of federal revenue. Cut expenditures enough, and you don't need an income tax.

This topic just came up yesterday. Here's a link to a similar discussion with evidence to back up what I'm saying:

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=16336.msg299416#msg299416

[Kat Kanning]

Someone sent me this idea.  Anyone interested in doing this?

an idea from forum posters at makethestand.com were thinking that some locals could pass out one page copies of an article that is very similar to the Browns case, personally handed to judges, lawyers/attorneys, officers, sheriffs, agents, media,.... in the area near the Browns. 

Forum post here:  http://www.makethestand.com/ftopict-783-.html

Article here:  http://conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=111&contentid=909

Do you know anyone in the area that would be willing to organize or do this?  What do you think?

[ChristianAnarchist]

The Fed Income Tax is unconstitutional when applied to individuals for all the reasons discussed previously.  I do think, however, it should still exist for corporations.  Anything CREATED is subject to it's CREATOR.  Since corps are "created" by the fiction "gov" by nature of the recording of permission by said gov, they are subject to the gov and any tax the gov lays on them.  We, however WERE NOT created by "our creation", (an absolute absurdity) and therefore can never be "subject" to it...

[Dave Ridley]

i did not have internet access after setting the date of the demo and just got word about riley's move

we demonstrated at the essex co. jail as planned...
video should be up at

http://youtube.com/dadaorwell

shortly, i uploaded it a few minutes go. 

[Nicholas Gilman]

   

Has anyone here ever met Ray in person?

[JosephSHaas]

GET A BACKBONE, GET A LIFE: Free Ed, Elaine, and the Supportive Four.

By: Raymond Ronald Karczewski©

Just what does it take for you people to understand the real, actual significance of the Government's arrests of these six people, Ed and Elaine Brown, Jason Gerhard, Bob Wolffe, Cerino Gonzales, Danny Riley.

These people are setting a precedent...

Are you people NUTZ?? You sit around talking endlessly about what to do about Ed and Elaine Brown, and now the others, but doing nothing in the meantime...

You people are cowards. All talk and no Show. You are dreamers who dream of a life that, in your present state of consciousness, YOU SHALL NEVER HAVE.

Do you know what you can do. YOU CAN STAND UP AS INDIVIDUALS and assert your Sovereignty...

Do you want a demonstration on how its done? Read the Patriot and the Pirate, Part III thread in my Section at the bottom of this forum. That's how you back em down, EVEN THOUGH THEY HANDCUFF YOU!!!

To all of you is say: GET A BACKBONE! GET A LIFE!! GET THESE GOVERNMENT LEECHES OFF YOUR BACK ONCE AND FOR ALL!!

Raymond Ronald Karczewski©

_________________
Raymond Ronald Karczewski© http://www.arkenterprises.com

Thanks Ray, on a "fixed police retirement". I see from your main page, and who ivyleague28477 writes: "sounds like a government thug that has come in here to intentionally try and stir up the hornets nest".  To which comment I say, so what? Let's do what he says in his "The Patriot and the Pirate, Part III" if we agree to it.  I've yet to read it so to comment on it later.

In the meantime I did read that first part of "SOVEREIGNTY & DRIVERS LICENSE" at http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialch24.htm#Martial from http://www.arkenterprises.com/index14.html where you mention Executive Order 10834 of Aug. 21, 1959 and by http://www.google.com found http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/10834.htm but that there is nothing there on the gold-fringed flag.

My research years ago, after N.H. State Rep. Dick Marple of Hooksett, a retired State Trooper and my friend for decades, put a House Bill #_________ in on this that went nowhere other than to get that one out of the Reps Hall so that he would not make a scene every so often, them keeping the others in each of the Public Hearing rooms, to where I commented once that from Dick's paperwork I found out that it's by some Army Regulation #___ that it can be displayed but only when a military flag is in its presence.  There are no such other flags, and so I visited the Army Recruiter station on the Heights here in Concord one day and asked the officer if he cared; he said no.  So if they don't care, then we shouldn't either, right? Or in other words, although against Army Regulations, WHO is there to enforce it? Nobody. The law reads of the flag as red, white and blue, but not such plus yellow. But WHO again enforces the federal law? The Feds.  And here in N.H. we want them to enforce THAT law, but not others!? Either they have jurisdiction and are not doing their job, or pick and choose by what's called "prosecutorial discretion", or they have NO jurisdiction! The truth is in the latter as "Consent" to do business in New Hampshire was offered to them by 1-8-17 U.S. Const. to NH RSA Ch. 123:1 but that they REFUSED, by declining to file the required paperwork in the Office of Secretary of State by the "shall" word, that our governor, by Art. 41 is charged by his RSA 92:2 oath to enforce, but doesn't, and still collects his every 2-week paychecks!

Ray, see also the Oregon Law Review of Dec. 1954, page 1 for this license issue in that a license is a restraint on the individual when you are a proven threat to the public, and so without an accident on record, the state has no power to force you to apply for a license. Also - You tell us to read your stuff, but have you really read ALL of the #____ replies here?  I doubt it. If you have you'd have read my plans to help each of the four latest inmates with Petitions for an Habeas Corpus at the Strafford County Superior Court in Dover.

One of our "you people" here, more a reader than a writer, but that he did write to Senator John E. Sununu's branch office in Claremont and got a 1-page letter dated Sept. 19, 2007 that he e-mailed to me last night saying, and I quote: that "The Browns have been convicted of income tax evasion...(and) sentenced...and are required by law to surrender...Senator Sununu...does not have jurisdiction over Federal Courts or authority over the New Hampshire Governor...The USMS is working closely with its state and local law enforcement PARTNERS...." (emphas ADDed) signed Christopher C. Collins, Constituant/Community Liason.

So WHERE and WHEN was this "partner"ship formed? They have a common duty of "law enforcement" of to serve and protect, with this letter-writer emphasizing the protection part of their job description, as in "to preserve the public's safety.  The security of the greater Plainfield community is of the highest priority to Senator Sununu...." But what about that lesser priority of his to the serving part?  There was no serving of federal papers upon our state's Office of Secretary of State, so there is technically no "partner"ship, defined over at http://www.answers.com/topic/partnership?cat=biz-fin as "A relationship between individuals or groups that is characterized by mutual cooperation and responsibility, as for the achievement of a specific goal;"  Or in other words: the groups here being the federal and state governments "relationship" defined as kinship, meaning "A close connection." Not just ANY connection, but a close one defined as a "Compact", "Bound by mutual interests", "To join or unite; bring into contact", "To reach an agreement", "A conclusion." Now use all these phrases to TRY to describe the non-filing by the Feds to RSA 123:1.  It just doesn't exist without the filing!

Here's what I did write to Bill last night, the recipient of this letter from Sununu:  "...Bill - Senators used to be elected by the State Legislature before the 17th Amendment.  Look in N.H. Art. 12 for we shall not be controllable by any other laws than those to which we or our representatives have given our consent.  Usually that means looking at the laws passed by Congress, actually statutes at large, because the Constitution is the law.  Now look at it from a different angle of no Consent by RSA 123:1 since the Feds have NOT filed the proper paperwork with the Office of Secretary of State.  Maybe Sununu can re-read 1-8-17 U./S. Const. with that Consent word in a capital letter C, and realize that they can pass all the statutes they want, because without the Consent with the capital letter 'C', although we gave consent to them to pass statutes (by our votes), they canNOT be applied to us without the Federal filing!  The end does NOT justify the means, in what is supposed to be an Art. IV, Sec. 4, U.S. Constitutional Republican form of gov't with due process of law: both substantive and 'procedural'! Yours truly, - Joe"

Before he died, R.I.P. http://www.tuppersaussy.com he also wrote me an e-mail that if he had to do it all over again, he'd concentrate on revoking the Seventeenth (17th) Amendment. We vote for the State Reps and Senators, who used to vote for the federal senators.  The Federal Reps are for the majority of the people, and the Senators are for the minority, as in some states with more people than others. Our state legislature (the minority) offered this "Consent" to the Feds by RSA 123:1 from 1-8-17 U.S. Const. but that they declined, thinking what? That years later it would be a majority take-over!?  Such is a "Democracy" and not a Republic, and so is against the law!  And so these "Law Enforcement" officers are not really for the law, but the major will of the people wanting blood out of the Browns. Ed (& Elaine) did verbally cite this non-"ceding" to the judge, as I heard it, but that he did not present a copy of that certificate of non-filing to the judge as evidence to mark as an exhibit, when the judge said that he will decide what goes to the jury. Ed presumed that this would be excluded, and so left the courtroom never to return. Even so, the law exists and for his protection that he's paid taxes also to the County Sheriff, who BTW is NOT mentioned in the Sununu letter, maybe because of that Jack McLamb letter, in his "Aid & Abet Newsletter" to all law enforcement officers, both on active duty and retired, of the Sheriff out west who put his foot down to say to the Feds that they had to PROVE their jurisdiction BEFORE they can enter his territory.

Such certificate of non-filing I did give to the U.S. Attorney for processing by Federal Rule 36, and State Rule 3.8* but never presented to the judge, and/or either defendant(s)* DURING trial, who, if he's reading this ought to investigate why not, and file disciplinary actions with whatever Bar Association that William Morse, Assistant U.S. Attorney is from, because he is NOT a member of the N.H. Bar Association. We need this and then for him to declare a mistrial.

Yours truly, - - - - - - - - - - Joseph S. Haas, P.O. Box 3842, Concord, New Hampshire 03302, Tel. 603: 848-6059 (cell phone).

P.S. Sorry David, I should have called you before the demo, but then again, maybe he'll be back there again, and you might have alerted an attorney who might be able to help Danny with his Habeas Corpus part of the case or cause. Have $money, will travel to pay a retainer for this.  Keep up the good work. And Nicholas: no, I have never met Ray in person.

[Kat Kanning]

BTW, does anyone know where Reno and Jason are being held?   Are they in NH yet?

[JosephSHaas]

BTW, does anyone know where Reno and Jason are being held?   Are they in NH yet?

Kat, Reno wore that Strafford County Jail shirt to court on Thursday afternoon. 

I wasn't there for Jason's arraignment Thursday morning.  Was he wearing the Strafford County garb too? We can find out, maybe on Tuesday morning at 9:30 a.m. when he re-appears for his detention hearing, or anybody can call his attorney at the telephone # I posted above.

Keep up the good work; I see you're at 1000 karma now, congratulations! -- Joe

Modification: not arraignment, but detention hearing.