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[tracysaboe]

Dada, all I was suggesting, is that if worse comes-to-worse, and we can't get the state to not steal a person'a property, we could come to their aid and help practice civil disobedience for them to keep it -- up untill the bitter end.

IF we had a client that such a thing happened to.

Tracy

[Russell Kanning]

I guess I will not be signing up, but I can help some other people. I can't promise anything .... you never know when the feds may jail me.

[FTL_Ian]

Okay.. to give one example:

I'm interested in refusing to pay property taxes.  However, I'm not courageous enough to go this one alone.  While I could create a Pledgebank agreement and attempt to promote it, there's no way for me to know for sure whether pledgebank signers are real, committed people.

Instead, you could collect the information as I earlier specified.  Say I'm comfortable witholding property taxes when 50 others are also willing to do so.  When you reach 50 clients who are also willing to withhold, you would alert me that the number has been reached.  I need not be concerned about whether the 50 are really there, because you are the credible intermediary.

Not only do I know for sure there are others out there doing the same, but I also know they are clients in good standing with your Freedom Protection Service.  I also know the 50 are willing to volunteer to help FPS should anything happen to another one of the 50.  That's valuable piece of mind.

I hope I made that clear.

[Dave Ridley]

Tracy wrote:

<< Dada, all I was suggesting, is that if worse comes-to-worse, and we can't get the state to not steal a person'a property, we could come to their aid and help practice civil disobedience for them to keep it -- up untill the bitter end.>>

I'm thinking one service we could make available would be that of "guarding" their property in some form or fashion while they are out, like the Kelo people did.   By this obviously I do not mean an armed patrol or anything, just folks being present at their homes and ready delay the bad guys or call in the cavalry.

Customers could choose to have us focus on this instead of some of the prewritten contractual obligations that might be of less value to them.

[Dave Ridley]

Regarding Ian's most recent post..

Hmm...the part I like about this is the idea of a questionnaire we submit to customers, which does indirectly encourage them not to pay the property tax.    It would be a long time though before we have enough customers on board to expect even 10 people signing up for mutual property tax resistance.

I also like the idea of mobilizing customers, keeping them involved.  Also there is potentially a selfish reason why customers might show up in defense of other customers...they know their turn may come and their connections with other customers would tend to facilitate a larger defense.

[Dave Ridley]

Regarding Roger's idea of a better name for the organization...

Maybe we *should*  talk about that.  Anyone have name suggestions?

[FTL_Ian]

Freedom Preservation Squad
Liberty Protection Agency
Liberty Defenders


Just throwing out ideas, I don't have a favorite.

[Braddogg]

Russell sparked a question in my mind: what happens to premiums and payment of a policy holder while and after being jailed?  The policy was set, I believe, at $1/day to start.  How would changes in this be handled?  What sort of possible instructions might one write before being sent to the klink?  I am weary of allowing the Liberty Loss Prevention Organization to expand to include organized CD not related to claims already in progress; I imagine that an LLPO might eventually have its hands full taking care of claims already in progress.  Is the goal to make people more comfortable with the prospect of [performing CD]/[ignoring laws] or just to spring them once they do?  It seems like the former, in which case offering social support -- babysitting so that a parent can continue to work, frozen homemade dinners for spouses and families, a shoulder for a significant other or child to lean on when they feel frustrated, etc. -- might be worthwhile; however, that may be out of the range of possibilities for a formally organized business and may be better for an informal support network.

[Russell Kanning]

Is the goal to make people more comfortable with the prospect of [performing CD]/[ignoring laws] or just to spring them once they do?

What does "spring them" mean to you?

[tracysaboe]

Tracy wrote:

<< Dada, all I was suggesting, is that if worse comes-to-worse, and we can't get the state to not steal a person'a property, we could come to their aid and help practice civil disobedience for them to keep it -- up untill the bitter end.>>

I'm thinking one service we could make available would be that of "guarding" their property in some form or fashion while they are out, like the Kelo people did.   By this obviously I do not mean an armed patrol or anything, just folks being present at their homes and ready delay the bad guys or call in the cavalry.

Customers could choose to have us focus on this instead of some of the prewritten contractual obligations that might be of less value to them.

That sounds good.

Tracy

[Barterer]

Regarding Ian's most recent post..

Hmm...the part I like about this is the idea of a questionnaire we submit to customers, which does indirectly encourage them not to pay the property tax.    It would be a long time though before we have enough customers on board to expect even 10 people signing up for mutual property tax resistance.

I'd also be interested in not paying rent on property I own, though in lieu of complete witholding I'd probably pull a Kat&Russell and just not pay a portion of the tax I view as BS.  Regarding the size of the group, I think it would take a lot more than 10 owners acting at once to avoid property confiscation, unless the town is very small.  So that seems a way off..

But speaking of that, once the FI business has been going a while and built up significant reserves, fine/confiscation reimbursement could be bought as an add-on to the policy.  General fine/confiscation costs for each class of "crime" could be looked up and set as the "up to x amount" reimbursement.

That would bring the service more in line with the label "Freedom Insurance"  though of the names mentioned so far, "Freedom Protection Agency" seems the most fitting.  Plus the "Agency" part lends a whiff of government-like.. officialness, making it harder to spin as "illegal activity insurace" like firsty pointed out.

[Dave Ridley]

ok....absorbing all this new feedback...keep it coming if you like.

[Dave Ridley]

Last month I indicated that this project would move forward if I had eight people more or less committed to becoming policyholders before Oct. 15.   The number I actually got by that time was 3.   Of course I probably could have *recruited* eight people to make this commitment but felt it was important not to do a ton of that, so that I might observe how much momentum this idea currently has on its own.

It looks like our numbers are not yet sufficient to make a project like this take off, so I will put the idea on the back burner and concentrate on other things for now.   This concept has however sponosored a related idea which I plan to explore with you guys later.

[Braddogg]

I do like the idea, and I think that some day there will be a big market for it.  Hopefully that day will be sooner rather than later.  Thanks for coming up with a feasible plan for a great concept.  Good luck on the next project.

[Tom Sawyer]

Right now, I feel, we are building confidence that folks will come to each others aid.
That is why it is important to stand up for each other... trust and confidence.